Why the avicara? - Guild Wars Forums

wilburgtwoot · Mar 07, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Why is it that you can't outrun Avicara anymore? Why would you release such an update, it's outrageous!! I run using sprint and rush for a good 8 to 10 seconds and they still are on my tail!! That has to be the stupidest update I've ever heard of. I don't know if the people who made GW actually play GW, but for those of us who do...this is a major annoyance. I can understand wanting to stop farming, so on and so on...but these updates are getting out of hand.

Verata · Mar 07, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

That update has been in place for quite a long time. It is not just the Avicara. I think a main reason was for it to cut down on running. Now that the enimies follow you longer there are less places for rests. But I don't really understand your question, if there even is one...

Noz Crow · Mar 07, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I agree 100% and am thinking of leaving the game. They repeatedly say they are not against farming, then they nerf the balls off of it. Lets see, lets change AOE, Thats not so bad. Then lets changes the way creatures act when taking damage. Again a little worse but still not to bad. Now lets change the way creatures pursue to the point where you can't run around anyone making running skills useless. I just love having to chase random NPC monks around trying to kill them for miles on the map while they arrgo every creature on all 3 continents. I swear i chased a monk boss from prophecies to Elona the other day. Man, just let us farm and have fun like we used to so this game does not get boring and we can still earn some decent coin without the urges that some have to just buy it from the Gold Bots.

Xenex Xclame · Mar 07, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Canadian Bacon · Mar 07, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

QFT

4567890

Kuldebar Valiturus · Mar 07, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

At some point, ANet needs to acknowledge <with more than words> that a large number of people play the game to participate in a legitimate in-game economy.

I understand that they wish to stop "extra-game" farmers, but any activity that ANet disrupts that isn't solely aimed at bots is going to hurt legitimate players.

Consider the items in the game that have a market, consider that people have disposable income in the end game; the farmers are filling a role in the game. Trade is one of the few surviving areas of the in-game community but it has been kept homeless on the streets.

One area where ANet has failed to formalize it's stance that a player economy is "important" to the game is in the lack of an Auction/Trade House function.

So, I can understand the OP's position and the idea that such changes are frustrating to players that want to farm game resources.

wilburgtwoot · Mar 07, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes. It didn't matter where I pulled them to, or how far i ran, the aggro just would not break. I can understand making the enemies chase you longer as more of a challenge, but it seems to be impossible. That's why its ridiculous. I would hope that the makers of GW would aim to please the players, and try to keep the game fun and enjoyable for everybody. When all these updates keep going against the players, it really causes people to have second thoughts about playing the game. You may say...good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. If that's the way business works, that's a poor attitude. Why would I purchase Nightfall and Factions if I know that at some point they will all be nerfed as well? Listen, i don't have a problem with a longer aggro, but at least make the ardent and wise somewhat breakable. That's all I want, not asking too much I don't think.

Noz Crow · Mar 07, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

People like that are part of the problem. Just mindless drones that will do and accept anything thrown at them. If they are perfectly happy right now, there will be something nerfed in the near future that will affect them. Then they will make a thousand posts about how it sux or is not fair. Then we can reply to them in the same uncaring, mindless way.

wilburgtwoot · Mar 07, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I really appreciate the rude comments...the attitudes of the higher people in this forum suck. They don't care, that's the problem with guild wars. They don't care how updates affect the players. I truly agree that not alot of time was put into the overall economy of guild wars. Gold is required to do almost anything in GW. You need it to buy armor, weapons, etc...no avoiding it. Guild Wars used to be so different. Usually updates are meant to make the game more fun and enjoyable. In this case, they make the game so much harder and frustrating. I just don't see why everyone isn't frustrated with these updates. Not everyone plays GW for PVP. I personally like exploring and killing things, that's what I prefer. The whole PVE experience doesn't suck, but it's definitely not as enjoyable as it used to be. I just wish people would stop making stupid comments and start having a for-real discussion. I'm not trying to ruin the game, and no I'm trying to whine. I just wish that some of these crazy updates would be revised a bit.

=HT=Ingram · Mar 07, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

the in game economy is nothing. It came from nothing it produces nothing its not enjoyable, indeed its agonizing to participate in. As far as I'm concerned Its not worth saving in any way. No matter how many gold resellers it removes from the game.

If every item in the game was a fixed price and available from NPCs it wouldn't matter at all... In fact it would provide MORE profit to players, not less. Because fixed pricing would also mean fixed sell prices. So if you get a gold max damage swd with 2 mods on it and go to the merchant or weaponsmith NPCs they would get realistic prices for them. Adversely go to a weponsmith and look for a equivalent weapon (that was traded in) and it would be priced similarly (Just like the original concept of the RUNE traders was suppose to work; {It didn't because of abuse of trade channel to create artificial inflation by the way}). Then the function of trade in all forms; the original abused spam in all chat, The legitimate trade chat channel, and the new (NEVER USED) Search trades function; becomes unnessesary.

I had hoped that the latest search function for trades would be used to make this a painless process but NO ONE uses it. And as such its become useless. Even though it crosses ALL districts and allows for easy listings of gear or materials for sell.

Truth be told the people that advocate for less trade options with NPCs are the same people that surprise surprise support gold resellers. Why? Because it makes them money. And this is blatantly against the EULA and the ROC they agreed too when they purchased and installed the game. As such any rights they have for continued access to Arenanets systems are Void! So Don't expect Anet to turn around and ALLOW it to continue forever or even at all.

It is a FACT that No item in the game Max or otherwise is unattainable. In fact they are readily available for little to nothing. And as such Nothing is worth what these PEOPLE, for want of a better less appropriate word, Say! Indeed almost every style of weapon with various mods can be archived for free from collectors, Or crafted for reasonable prices. And are no better then a Max gold or Green item when used in combat... And the various armors are affordable at max class rating, if not for free in the Crystal Desert from collectors.

Great so you bought some gold or farmed for months to afford Fissure armor.. Whoppty freaking doo.. Isn't a shame that any moron can still be your equivalent with 1k Kourna Armor, a few cheap runes, and some collector weapons? Congrats, You just wasted your time and Platinum for nothing but Vanity.

I'm sorry that PvE has deteriorated the way it has. And there is no argument that it has. Everyone agrees its Evolved into something that is not very productive most of the time. The game play is superior however as it poses a greater challenge to play. But the rewards are less worthy. I'm sure thats why they added a couple freebe chests and such not all that long ago, to give people a chance at some easy loot to use, but not produce a gold pit to be exploited by farmers. Once its used its used... Business done.

I believe that if they fix the formulas a little to make it that if you have a FULL NON-NPC party (this means no heroes or henchies and a party of 8) that PvE enjoyment will improve 100 Fold. As such it will Encourage more full party groups playing the game as opposed to lone wolf farming bots in parties of 1 with build of the month skill bars...

Perkunas · Mar 07, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Many complain alot about the updates. Many say live with it. I have complained. I am told to use certain skills. Those skills were not yet available to me at that point of the game. So I go on and try to find someone, with the skills needed, to join me on my journies. Good Luck on being heard.

Noz Crow · Mar 07, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I was referring to XX for the insensitive comments, not you wilbur. I just see that ANet in an effort to stopping Bot farming are in fact pushing more people towards just buying gold. You see Bot farmers have nothing but time on there hands. So what if it takes them 10 hours to do what it used to take 3. That is there job. Now you have the casual player that may have 3 hours a weekend to play but really want max armor. I have played long enough where i have a decent amount of gold saved, but i am much more picky on what i buy because i will never be able to replenish. I used to farm stuff because it was fun and challenging, not impossible. And low and behold you could make money while you were at it.

Freneticweasel · Mar 07, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Are the Avicara outside Droks enroute to the Troll Cave doing this too? I find it very simple just to get henchies to aggro them, flag them away, and let them die outside of the radar from where you're killing trolls. It's easy.

Noz Crow · Mar 07, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

We are talking about the run to the Ice caves to farm for some IDS. I also use the heroes flag trick for the troll cave

But the run to the Ice caves might be to much for the heroes i will have to try it.

Livingston · Mar 07, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Outside of the imp caves you can get spawns where they are easily avoidable. So just zone and redo it, or as the above said just use Heros if you have NF.

The update might suck, but it really didn't have that big of an impact realistically. You simply have to change your strategies. You needed to do specific things with specific skills to farm that area before, now you just need to change how you do it. There have been other updates in the past that changed the way it was done as well, so what you were doing before this latest update is different than what people were doing before a previous update. You just have to find the work around. I actually don't mind this as it makes the process a little less repetitive, though for only a short period of time. And since some people refuse to change what they are doing, it just means that there will be less of those items on the market, and should increase their value as such.

The only major change this update has had that I've noticed is that warriors can no longer do the Droks run, though their may be some super beasts out there that can still pull it off maybe, but I'd love to see a vid of that.

From what I've seen, though this might not be the case, I think Anet made this update as a way out. Before the update there were certain creatures that weren't breaking aggro correctly. Mostly in specifc areas. I think that they couldn't figure out why this was happening, so instead of spending the time to figure out how to fix it, they just decided that they would make it "ok" and cause all of those creatures to do the same thing everywhere. Thus it's no longer a bug, it's an update. Like I said before, I could be wrong, but that's the logical conclusion I have drawn from what I've read about it.

Technically speaking you should be killing those mobs anyway, thus it's far from game breaking. Farming is only really "needed" to acquire things in the game that you don't really need, like vanity armor, specific skins for weapons, mini-pets, or a heap of items for a title that can only be seen in certain areas when someone specifically clicks on you to check. Everything that you actually need in game can easily be acquired from the money gained through normal quest completion. Everything else is simply a matter of aesthetics.

Livingston

ZenRgy · Mar 07, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

The Avicara Never Give Up!

Darko_UK · Mar 07, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

AOE , running to heal, or simply running,no matter how annoying and sometimes stupid as it may be all these changes are to make the game more realistic,

Yeah because when I make a meteor storm appear above a marongite from another dimension all I care about is realism

wilburgtwoot · Mar 07, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

As far as adapting with new builds, I have gone through well over 15 different builds on my monk/warrior/ranger. Either way I adapt to the updates, and I don't mind the updates. Like some of you, I do it for the challenge, not just gold. Not all avicara have the breaking aggro problem. From what I can tell, it's only the Ardent and Wise. I fought the group outside the imp cave for well over 20 minutes, trying to kill the ardent (Healer). He kept himself healed very well, so switched targets to a brave. Got the brave down to maybe 40 hp, then the ardent healed him instantly to almost max health. It's not that I'm trying to avoid it, but with their amazing healing and SOJ it's very difficult to fight them. Sometimes you need to be able to avoid certain groups, but the wise and ardent don't break aggro at all. They will chase you till kingdom come, which isn't very realistic. I can outrun Brave and Fierce, but not Wise and Ardent. On top of that, they place the group of Ice Imps and two avicara groups very close together, so there's no way of running around them.

Mournblade · Mar 07, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko_UK

Yeah because when I make a meteor storm appear above a marongite from another dimension all I care about is realism

Try re-reading his entire post. Do it slowly if you have to because you missed his entire point about realism.

boxterduke · Mar 07, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I used to say the same whenever a person complains but I came to a realization that if we keep saying that then there wont be people playing GW anymore.

This sentence is not constructive at all anymore.

Mar 07, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25	#1
wilburgtwoot Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Profession: W/Mo	Why the avicara? Why is it that you can't outrun Avicara anymore? Why would you release such an update, it's outrageous!! I run using sprint and rush for a good 8 to 10 seconds and they still are on my tail!! That has to be the stupidest update I've ever heard of. I don't know if the people who made GW actually play GW, but for those of us who do...this is a major annoyance. I can understand wanting to stop farming, so on and so on...but these updates are getting out of hand.

Mar 07, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55	#10
=HT=Ingram Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Anchorage Alaska Guild: Haz Team [HT] Profession: R/W	the in game economy is nothing. It came from nothing it produces nothing its not enjoyable, indeed its agonizing to participate in. As far as I'm concerned Its not worth saving in any way. No matter how many gold resellers it removes from the game. If every item in the game was a fixed price and available from NPCs it wouldn't matter at all... In fact it would provide MORE profit to players, not less. Because fixed pricing would also mean fixed sell prices. So if you get a gold max damage swd with 2 mods on it and go to the merchant or weaponsmith NPCs they would get realistic prices for them. Adversely go to a weponsmith and look for a equivalent weapon (that was traded in) and it would be priced similarly (Just like the original concept of the RUNE traders was suppose to work; {It didn't because of abuse of trade channel to create artificial inflation by the way}). Then the function of trade in all forms; the original abused spam in all chat, The legitimate trade chat channel, and the new (NEVER USED) Search trades function; becomes unnessesary. I had hoped that the latest search function for trades would be used to make this a painless process but NO ONE uses it. And as such its become useless. Even though it crosses ALL districts and allows for easy listings of gear or materials for sell. Truth be told the people that advocate for less trade options with NPCs are the same people that surprise surprise support gold resellers. Why? Because it makes them money. And this is blatantly against the EULA and the ROC they agreed too when they purchased and installed the game. As such any rights they have for continued access to Arenanets systems are Void! So Don't expect Anet to turn around and ALLOW it to continue forever or even at all. It is a FACT that No item in the game Max or otherwise is unattainable. In fact they are readily available for little to nothing. And as such Nothing is worth what these PEOPLE, for want of a better less appropriate word, Say! Indeed almost every style of weapon with various mods can be archived for free from collectors, Or crafted for reasonable prices. And are no better then a Max gold or Green item when used in combat... And the various armors are affordable at max class rating, if not for free in the Crystal Desert from collectors. Great so you bought some gold or farmed for months to afford Fissure armor.. Whoppty freaking doo.. Isn't a shame that any moron can still be your equivalent with 1k Kourna Armor, a few cheap runes, and some collector weapons? Congrats, You just wasted your time and Platinum for nothing but Vanity. I'm sorry that PvE has deteriorated the way it has. And there is no argument that it has. Everyone agrees its Evolved into something that is not very productive most of the time. The game play is superior however as it poses a greater challenge to play. But the rewards are less worthy. I'm sure thats why they added a couple freebe chests and such not all that long ago, to give people a chance at some easy loot to use, but not produce a gold pit to be exploited by farmers. Once its used its used... Business done. I believe that if they fix the formulas a little to make it that if you have a FULL NON-NPC party (this means no heroes or henchies and a party of 8) that PvE enjoyment will improve 100 Fold. As such it will Encourage more full party groups playing the game as opposed to lone wolf farming bots in parties of 1 with build of the month skill bars... Last edited by =HT=Ingram; Mar 08, 2007 at 02:03 AM // 02:03..

Mar 07, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36	#2
Verata Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2007 Guild: Farmers Union [CASH] Profession: N/Me	That update has been in place for quite a long time. It is not just the Avicara. I think a main reason was for it to cut down on running. Now that the enimies follow you longer there are less places for rests. But I don't really understand your question, if there even is one...

Mar 07, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47	#3
Noz Crow Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/Mo	I agree 100% and am thinking of leaving the game. They repeatedly say they are not against farming, then they nerf the balls off of it. Lets see, lets change AOE, Thats not so bad. Then lets changes the way creatures act when taking damage. Again a little worse but still not to bad. Now lets change the way creatures pursue to the point where you can't run around anyone making running skills useless. I just love having to chase random NPC monks around trying to kill them for miles on the map while they arrgo every creature on all 3 continents. I swear i chased a monk boss from prophecies to Elona the other day. Man, just let us farm and have fun like we used to so this game does not get boring and we can still earn some decent coin without the urges that some have to just buy it from the Gold Bots.

Mar 07, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51	#4
Xenex Xclame Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: DPX Profession: R/	Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Mar 07, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21	#6
Kuldebar Valiturus Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Garden City, Idaho Guild: The Order of Relumination (TOoR) Profession: R/	At some point, ANet needs to acknowledge <with more than words> that a large number of people play the game to participate in a legitimate in-game economy. I understand that they wish to stop "extra-game" farmers, but any activity that ANet disrupts that isn't solely aimed at bots is going to hurt legitimate players. Consider the items in the game that have a market, consider that people have disposable income in the end game; the farmers are filling a role in the game. Trade is one of the few surviving areas of the in-game community but it has been kept homeless on the streets. One area where ANet has failed to formalize it's stance that a player economy is "important" to the game is in the lack of an Auction/Trade House function. So, I can understand the OP's position and the idea that such changes are frustrating to players that want to farm game resources.

Mar 07, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25	#7
wilburgtwoot Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Profession: W/Mo	That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes. It didn't matter where I pulled them to, or how far i ran, the aggro just would not break. I can understand making the enemies chase you longer as more of a challenge, but it seems to be impossible. That's why its ridiculous. I would hope that the makers of GW would aim to please the players, and try to keep the game fun and enjoyable for everybody. When all these updates keep going against the players, it really causes people to have second thoughts about playing the game. You may say...good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. If that's the way business works, that's a poor attitude. Why would I purchase Nightfall and Factions if I know that at some point they will all be nerfed as well? Listen, i don't have a problem with a longer aggro, but at least make the ardent and wise somewhat breakable. That's all I want, not asking too much I don't think.

Mar 07, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38	#8
Noz Crow Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/Mo	People like that are part of the problem. Just mindless drones that will do and accept anything thrown at them. If they are perfectly happy right now, there will be something nerfed in the near future that will affect them. Then they will make a thousand posts about how it sux or is not fair. Then we can reply to them in the same uncaring, mindless way.

Mar 07, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52	#9
wilburgtwoot Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Profession: W/Mo	I really appreciate the rude comments...the attitudes of the higher people in this forum suck. They don't care, that's the problem with guild wars. They don't care how updates affect the players. I truly agree that not alot of time was put into the overall economy of guild wars. Gold is required to do almost anything in GW. You need it to buy armor, weapons, etc...no avoiding it. Guild Wars used to be so different. Usually updates are meant to make the game more fun and enjoyable. In this case, they make the game so much harder and frustrating. I just don't see why everyone isn't frustrated with these updates. Not everyone plays GW for PVP. I personally like exploring and killing things, that's what I prefer. The whole PVE experience doesn't suck, but it's definitely not as enjoyable as it used to be. I just wish people would stop making stupid comments and start having a for-real discussion. I'm not trying to ruin the game, and no I'm trying to whine. I just wish that some of these crazy updates would be revised a bit.

Mar 07, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10	#11
Perkunas Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my own little world, looking at yours Guild: Only Us[NotU] Profession: E/	Many complain alot about the updates. Many say live with it. I have complained. I am told to use certain skills. Those skills were not yet available to me at that point of the game. So I go on and try to find someone, with the skills needed, to join me on my journies. Good Luck on being heard.

Mar 07, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14	#12
Noz Crow Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/Mo	I was referring to XX for the insensitive comments, not you wilbur. I just see that ANet in an effort to stopping Bot farming are in fact pushing more people towards just buying gold. You see Bot farmers have nothing but time on there hands. So what if it takes them 10 hours to do what it used to take 3. That is there job. Now you have the casual player that may have 3 hours a weekend to play but really want max armor. I have played long enough where i have a decent amount of gold saved, but i am much more picky on what i buy because i will never be able to replenish. I used to farm stuff because it was fun and challenging, not impossible. And low and behold you could make money while you were at it.

Mar 07, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22	#13
Freneticweasel Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Brick. Guild: Vanguards of Aslyum/Defenders of Amnoon Profession: R/Mo	Are the Avicara outside Droks enroute to the Troll Cave doing this too? I find it very simple just to get henchies to aggro them, flag them away, and let them die outside of the radar from where you're killing trolls. It's easy.

Mar 07, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57	#14
Noz Crow Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/Mo	We are talking about the run to the Ice caves to farm for some IDS. I also use the heroes flag trick for the troll cave But the run to the Ice caves might be to much for the heroes i will have to try it.

Mar 07, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28	#15
Livingston Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Edge of the World Guild: [L] [GET]	Outside of the imp caves you can get spawns where they are easily avoidable. So just zone and redo it, or as the above said just use Heros if you have NF. The update might suck, but it really didn't have that big of an impact realistically. You simply have to change your strategies. You needed to do specific things with specific skills to farm that area before, now you just need to change how you do it. There have been other updates in the past that changed the way it was done as well, so what you were doing before this latest update is different than what people were doing before a previous update. You just have to find the work around. I actually don't mind this as it makes the process a little less repetitive, though for only a short period of time. And since some people refuse to change what they are doing, it just means that there will be less of those items on the market, and should increase their value as such. The only major change this update has had that I've noticed is that warriors can no longer do the Droks run, though their may be some super beasts out there that can still pull it off maybe, but I'd love to see a vid of that. From what I've seen, though this might not be the case, I think Anet made this update as a way out. Before the update there were certain creatures that weren't breaking aggro correctly. Mostly in specifc areas. I think that they couldn't figure out why this was happening, so instead of spending the time to figure out how to fix it, they just decided that they would make it "ok" and cause all of those creatures to do the same thing everywhere. Thus it's no longer a bug, it's an update. Like I said before, I could be wrong, but that's the logical conclusion I have drawn from what I've read about it. Technically speaking you should be killing those mobs anyway, thus it's far from game breaking. Farming is only really "needed" to acquire things in the game that you don't really need, like vanity armor, specific skins for weapons, mini-pets, or a heap of items for a title that can only be seen in certain areas when someone specifically clicks on you to check. Everything that you actually need in game can easily be acquired from the money gained through normal quest completion. Everything else is simply a matter of aesthetics. Livingston

Mar 07, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47	#16
ZenRgy Zookeeper Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australian Discussion Posse HQ - Glorious leader Guild: ҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&# Profession: N/E	The Avicara Never Give Up!

Mar 07, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14	#18
wilburgtwoot Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2007 Profession: W/Mo	As far as adapting with new builds, I have gone through well over 15 different builds on my monk/warrior/ranger. Either way I adapt to the updates, and I don't mind the updates. Like some of you, I do it for the challenge, not just gold. Not all avicara have the breaking aggro problem. From what I can tell, it's only the Ardent and Wise. I fought the group outside the imp cave for well over 20 minutes, trying to kill the ardent (Healer). He kept himself healed very well, so switched targets to a brave. Got the brave down to maybe 40 hp, then the ardent healed him instantly to almost max health. It's not that I'm trying to avoid it, but with their amazing healing and SOJ it's very difficult to fight them. Sometimes you need to be able to avoid certain groups, but the wise and ardent don't break aggro at all. They will chase you till kingdom come, which isn't very realistic. I can outrun Brave and Fierce, but not Wise and Ardent. On top of that, they place the group of Ice Imps and two avicara groups very close together, so there's no way of running around them.